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	<title>Comments on: The BBC goes a&#8217;trampling</title>
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		<title>By: Ken Westmoreland</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-69278</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Westmoreland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-69278</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Childs added: &quot;I didn&#039;t even know they already had a channel [Granada&#039;s UKTV in the Middle East]. I had never heard of it.&lt;/i&gt;

He should have done, he worked for STAR TV, which broadcast it in some Asia Pacific markets until 2002, when the BBC was still having doubts about launching BBC Prime there.

The Granada UKTV channel is now called &#039;Granada TV&#039;
http://www.starselect.com/channels/uktv.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Childs added: &#8220;I didn&#8217;t even know they already had a channel [Granada's UKTV in the Middle East]. I had never heard of it.</i></p>
<p>He should have done, he worked for STAR TV, which broadcast it in some Asia Pacific markets until 2002, when the BBC was still having doubts about launching BBC Prime there.</p>
<p>The Granada UKTV channel is now called &#8216;Granada TV&#8217;<br />
<a href="http://www.starselect.com/channels/uktv.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.starselect.com/channels/uktv.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hiring a &#8220;blogger in residence&#8221; to help open the BBC &#171; Common User</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-58360</link>
		<dc:creator>Hiring a &#8220;blogger in residence&#8221; to help open the BBC &#171; Common User</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-58360</guid>
		<description>[...] the companies that Tech Crunch represents has seen to that.  Thankfully we&#8217;ve seen emergent thinking amongst colleagues of the logic that stronger partnerships and a more common approach should be tackeld head on as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the companies that Tech Crunch represents has seen to that.  Thankfully we&#8217;ve seen emergent thinking amongst colleagues of the logic that stronger partnerships and a more common approach should be tackeld head on as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: how to get license to do business worldwide</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-27862</link>
		<dc:creator>how to get license to do business worldwide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-27862</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: REG CROWDER</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-27151</link>
		<dc:creator>REG CROWDER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-27151</guid>
		<description>I am conflicted on this. I make extensive use of the BBC&#039;s news programming. The entertainment output strikes me as neither better nor worse than most of what&#039;s out there.

It is fairly ridiculous for the BBC to take the position that its profit-making operations aren&#039;t hugely subsidized by the tax-exempt and taxpayer-supported  portion of the BBC. If the BBC is the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room, the fake separation of the BBC&#039;s profit-making and non-profit-making arms is the 10,000 pound time bomb that&#039;s ticking away under the floor boards.

In the long term, the Governing Board of the BBC is not doing the UK any favors by hiding from this obvious deception and hypocricy. It is merely leaving it for somebody else to exploit the issue.

And yet, I can&#039;t quite bring myself to insert the word &quot;trampling&quot; into this discussion.

I was in the US during the run-up to the first Iraq War, which is known in the Middle East as The First Oil War (quite correctly in my view).

The cheerleading of the US corporate media for the mindless carnage to follow was shocking.  I found myself thinking, &quot;This must have been what it felt like in the early days of the Third Reich.&quot;

And yet it was still possible to get a more or less balanced view from foreign sources. A public television station (public service, community-owned), WEDU,  every evening broadcast a a 30-minute TV news program from the BBC and then a 30-minute English language news show   from Deutsche Welle (DW-TV).

For me, in those days, the BBC and Deutsche Welle were little video windows   into reality.

(Sigh.) I hope the higher-ups in the Beeb give some serious thought to the ways its for-profit/not-for-profit dual personality could be suppressing creativity and diversity in the media.

The BBC gets most of the big issues right. But on this issue, I&#039;m uncomfortable about where this thing may be headed.

REG CROWDER
[Freelance Financial and Investment Writer]

http://www.utalkmarketing.com/Blogs/UserBlogs.aspx?UserID=6304

http://www.journalistdirectory.com/journalist/TgTQ/REG-CROWDER</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am conflicted on this. I make extensive use of the BBC&#8217;s news programming. The entertainment output strikes me as neither better nor worse than most of what&#8217;s out there.</p>
<p>It is fairly ridiculous for the BBC to take the position that its profit-making operations aren&#8217;t hugely subsidized by the tax-exempt and taxpayer-supported  portion of the BBC. If the BBC is the 1,000 pound gorilla in the room, the fake separation of the BBC&#8217;s profit-making and non-profit-making arms is the 10,000 pound time bomb that&#8217;s ticking away under the floor boards.</p>
<p>In the long term, the Governing Board of the BBC is not doing the UK any favors by hiding from this obvious deception and hypocricy. It is merely leaving it for somebody else to exploit the issue.</p>
<p>And yet, I can&#8217;t quite bring myself to insert the word &#8220;trampling&#8221; into this discussion.</p>
<p>I was in the US during the run-up to the first Iraq War, which is known in the Middle East as The First Oil War (quite correctly in my view).</p>
<p>The cheerleading of the US corporate media for the mindless carnage to follow was shocking.  I found myself thinking, &#8220;This must have been what it felt like in the early days of the Third Reich.&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet it was still possible to get a more or less balanced view from foreign sources. A public television station (public service, community-owned), WEDU,  every evening broadcast a a 30-minute TV news program from the BBC and then a 30-minute English language news show   from Deutsche Welle (DW-TV).</p>
<p>For me, in those days, the BBC and Deutsche Welle were little video windows   into reality.</p>
<p>(Sigh.) I hope the higher-ups in the Beeb give some serious thought to the ways its for-profit/not-for-profit dual personality could be suppressing creativity and diversity in the media.</p>
<p>The BBC gets most of the big issues right. But on this issue, I&#8217;m uncomfortable about where this thing may be headed.</p>
<p>REG CROWDER<br />
[Freelance Financial and Investment Writer]</p>
<p><a href="http://www.utalkmarketing.com/Blogs/UserBlogs.aspx?UserID=6304" rel="nofollow">http://www.utalkmarketing.com/.....serID=6304</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.journalistdirectory.com/journalist/TgTQ/REG-CROWDER" rel="nofollow">http://www.journalistdirectory.....EG-CROWDER</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian Betteridge</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-25097</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Betteridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 13:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-25097</guid>
		<description>Lots of interesting points, as always Neil. I am, of course, going to take issue with some of them :)

First of all, BBC Worldwide. Now I&#039;m not going to defend Worldwide, as a remarkably high percentage of the pronouncements that come out of it are complete toss. They also, in my experience, make virtually everyone within the main BBC give off a small, weary groan as - once again - Worldwide&#039;s remit (to make as much cash as possible) clashes with the BBCs (public service). I wish that Worldwide was either spun off completely or at least renamed.

Second, the Shiny thing. Well, the real headline for this is &quot;researched forgets to credit someone&quot; - and that&#039;s not exactly an unknown thing is the world of television. In fact, in my experience, the BBC is better at this than most - the massive, ridiculously-detailed rights and clearance documents they have for TV tends to mean they don&#039;t forget this kind of stuff. But either way, it&#039;s hardly something you can make a &quot;teh BBC is evul!&quot; argument about, unless you&#039;re a Digg reader.

Finally, the local newspapers. Another way of looking at this is that a set of established local monopolies are seeking to prevent someone competing with them - as you probably know, local news papers (and thus, local news sites) are almost all effectively monopolies. Of course they&#039;re unhappy about their cosy monopolies being disrupted by competition - the thing that companies in that position will always fight to avoid.

But the key question you&#039;re missing out on is this: is it in the interests of the consumer that there is effective competition in the local news web site market? Or is it beneficial that there are private-sector monopolies? I think there can only be one answer to that. 

On a national scale, we have probably the best set of news sites in the world - all of which have to compete with the BBC, and do it very well. Of course, you and the Telegraph and the rest would get more traffic if there was no BBC news - but it&#039;s the competitive pressure that the BBC provides has forced all UK news sites to up their game, and that can only be good for the public.

Finally, of course, the bit you missed out completely: the BBC&#039;s plans for local news will have to pass the hideousness of the Market Impact Asessment, like all big BBC projects. If the impact will be to effectively close existing sites, it will not pass the MIA, and the project will not happen. Plus, of course, an MIA will likely take 2-3 years, so existing sites have time to up the ante and produce something that&#039;s more compelling than the BBC plans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of interesting points, as always Neil. I am, of course, going to take issue with some of them <img src='http://www.completetosh.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>First of all, BBC Worldwide. Now I&#8217;m not going to defend Worldwide, as a remarkably high percentage of the pronouncements that come out of it are complete toss. They also, in my experience, make virtually everyone within the main BBC give off a small, weary groan as &#8211; once again &#8211; Worldwide&#8217;s remit (to make as much cash as possible) clashes with the BBCs (public service). I wish that Worldwide was either spun off completely or at least renamed.</p>
<p>Second, the Shiny thing. Well, the real headline for this is &#8220;researched forgets to credit someone&#8221; &#8211; and that&#8217;s not exactly an unknown thing is the world of television. In fact, in my experience, the BBC is better at this than most &#8211; the massive, ridiculously-detailed rights and clearance documents they have for TV tends to mean they don&#8217;t forget this kind of stuff. But either way, it&#8217;s hardly something you can make a &#8220;teh BBC is evul!&#8221; argument about, unless you&#8217;re a Digg reader.</p>
<p>Finally, the local newspapers. Another way of looking at this is that a set of established local monopolies are seeking to prevent someone competing with them &#8211; as you probably know, local news papers (and thus, local news sites) are almost all effectively monopolies. Of course they&#8217;re unhappy about their cosy monopolies being disrupted by competition &#8211; the thing that companies in that position will always fight to avoid.</p>
<p>But the key question you&#8217;re missing out on is this: is it in the interests of the consumer that there is effective competition in the local news web site market? Or is it beneficial that there are private-sector monopolies? I think there can only be one answer to that. </p>
<p>On a national scale, we have probably the best set of news sites in the world &#8211; all of which have to compete with the BBC, and do it very well. Of course, you and the Telegraph and the rest would get more traffic if there was no BBC news &#8211; but it&#8217;s the competitive pressure that the BBC provides has forced all UK news sites to up their game, and that can only be good for the public.</p>
<p>Finally, of course, the bit you missed out completely: the BBC&#8217;s plans for local news will have to pass the hideousness of the Market Impact Asessment, like all big BBC projects. If the impact will be to effectively close existing sites, it will not pass the MIA, and the project will not happen. Plus, of course, an MIA will likely take 2-3 years, so existing sites have time to up the ante and produce something that&#8217;s more compelling than the BBC plans.</p>
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		<title>By: Shiny &#38; Panorama and TechCrunch &#38; the BBC &#171; Jazamatazz</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-25088</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiny &#38; Panorama and TechCrunch &#38; the BBC &#171; Jazamatazz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-25088</guid>
		<description>[...] McIntosh: The BBC goes a&#8217;trampling - interesting resonses form the BBC and Jeff [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] McIntosh: The BBC goes a&#8217;trampling &#8211; interesting resonses form the BBC and Jeff [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley Norris</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-24955</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley Norris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-24955</guid>
		<description>Hi Neil

Just to update you. I got this from the Editor of Panorama, Sandy Smith

Hi, I&#039;m the editor of Panorama. Looking back we should have given the girls an onscreen credit as well because their contribution was excellent. This was overlooked in the final stages of a long and complicated investigation. Panorama has a new multiplatform editor, a bigger and better website on the way precisely because we recognise the new talent and opportunities out there. Didn&#039;t get it right this time, sorry to all at Shiny and Catwalk Queen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Neil</p>
<p>Just to update you. I got this from the Editor of Panorama, Sandy Smith</p>
<p>Hi, I&#8217;m the editor of Panorama. Looking back we should have given the girls an onscreen credit as well because their contribution was excellent. This was overlooked in the final stages of a long and complicated investigation. Panorama has a new multiplatform editor, a bigger and better website on the way precisely because we recognise the new talent and opportunities out there. Didn&#8217;t get it right this time, sorry to all at Shiny and Catwalk Queen.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-24944</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-24944</guid>
		<description>Jeff - it&#039;s certainly an interesting idea. It&#039;s imaginable that BBC Platform could become an enabler through syndication, technology and commercial deals. But the ties with BBC Content would be hugely tricky, and I think the private sector would be wary of anything which appeared to further strengthen the BBC&#039;s position without some degree of governance from a body that understood the digital ecosystem in this country, and around the world.
On Google: I&#039;d go as far as to say it can be more easily challenged, insofar as something better than it may eventually come along. It enjoys no lock-in on users and advertisers other than that delivered by its technical superiority. Currently, the BBC&#039;s license fee is... well, for the BBC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; it&#8217;s certainly an interesting idea. It&#8217;s imaginable that BBC Platform could become an enabler through syndication, technology and commercial deals. But the ties with BBC Content would be hugely tricky, and I think the private sector would be wary of anything which appeared to further strengthen the BBC&#8217;s position without some degree of governance from a body that understood the digital ecosystem in this country, and around the world.<br />
On Google: I&#8217;d go as far as to say it can be more easily challenged, insofar as something better than it may eventually come along. It enjoys no lock-in on users and advertisers other than that delivered by its technical superiority. Currently, the BBC&#8217;s license fee is&#8230; well, for the BBC.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-24939</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-24939</guid>
		<description>I know this is a simplistic and naive (read: American) view but I wonder what the BBC would look like if it were constituted as a platform. 

iPlayer would play your video. BBC news video would be available to you to show and remix. BBC international might sell ads for other British media. The BBC would, indeed, send traffic to quality British media to support it. The BBC would share its technology as a platform: open-source and/or hosted. 

Instead, my British friends look at the BBC as the competitor that feels no sting of competition itself. Well, that&#039;s rather like Google, eh? 

So I wonder how products, audiences, and businesses could be built atop a BBC platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is a simplistic and naive (read: American) view but I wonder what the BBC would look like if it were constituted as a platform. </p>
<p>iPlayer would play your video. BBC news video would be available to you to show and remix. BBC international might sell ads for other British media. The BBC would, indeed, send traffic to quality British media to support it. The BBC would share its technology as a platform: open-source and/or hosted. </p>
<p>Instead, my British friends look at the BBC as the competitor that feels no sting of competition itself. Well, that&#8217;s rather like Google, eh? </p>
<p>So I wonder how products, audiences, and businesses could be built atop a BBC platform.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2008/06/26/the-bbc-goes-atrampling/comment-page-1/#comment-24918</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.completetosh.com/?p=686#comment-24918</guid>
		<description>Thanks, all, for the responses. Jem - first off, I can&#039;t agree for a second with your suggestion that simply debating this issue results in less investment in public service content. 

As I say in the post, all of the things I&#039;m complaining about are unconnected and happening in different parts of a large forest. The Shiny episode is at an operational level, the other two strategic. All they can be symptomatic of - if anything - is something cultural at the BBC; an insensitivity born of pretty obvious causes, and not shared by all there. 

I&#039;m delighted to hear there&#039;s more interest in partnerships - here&#039;s hoping it (really) makes those indie production quotas, and then decides to do more. I&#039;m sure it&#039;ll offer welcome relief to a private sector that&#039;s already feeling economic pain, and will feel far more before the year is out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, all, for the responses. Jem &#8211; first off, I can&#8217;t agree for a second with your suggestion that simply debating this issue results in less investment in public service content. </p>
<p>As I say in the post, all of the things I&#8217;m complaining about are unconnected and happening in different parts of a large forest. The Shiny episode is at an operational level, the other two strategic. All they can be symptomatic of &#8211; if anything &#8211; is something cultural at the BBC; an insensitivity born of pretty obvious causes, and not shared by all there. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m delighted to hear there&#8217;s more interest in partnerships &#8211; here&#8217;s hoping it (really) makes those indie production quotas, and then decides to do more. I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;ll offer welcome relief to a private sector that&#8217;s already feeling economic pain, and will feel far more before the year is out.</p>
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