Comments on: Five things the NUJ could do to engage with the web http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/ Sun, 06 Jul 2008 02:20:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: John Connell » Blog Archive » NUJ online http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-2661 John Connell » Blog Archive » NUJ online Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:38:19 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-2661 [...] In the aftermath of the dust raised by Donnacha Delong’s less-than-erudite “Web 2.0 is Rubbish” article (published originally in The Journalist, but difficult to find there given the mediocre web presence of the paper - the link here is to Delong’s own blog) it was fun to read Neil McIntosh taking the NUJ’s print and online publications apart. [...] [...] In the aftermath of the dust raised by Donnacha Delong’s less-than-erudite “Web 2.0 is Rubbish” article (published originally in The Journalist, but difficult to find there given the mediocre web presence of the paper - the link here is to Delong’s own blog) it was fun to read Neil McIntosh taking the NUJ’s print and online publications apart. [...]

]]> By: johninnit » Blog Archive » Journalism - A stand-up job! http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-2034 johninnit » Blog Archive » Journalism - A stand-up job! Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:43:29 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-2034 [...] of course, changing this kind of thing takes time (though Neil McIntosh came up with a good list of starters recently), and plays into the hands of those who think all the union wants to do is preserve [...] [...] of course, changing this kind of thing takes time (though Neil McIntosh came up with a good list of starters recently), and plays into the hands of those who think all the union wants to do is preserve [...]

]]> By: An open letter to Roy Greenslade: Why I’m not leaving the NUJ « Online Journalism Blog http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-2022 An open letter to Roy Greenslade: Why I’m not leaving the NUJ « Online Journalism Blog Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:15:01 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-2022 [...] if the NUJ is sounding protectionist or Luddite, then I’d rather engage with it - as Neil McIntosh has done with his five things the NUJ could do to get more clued-up - and join the conversation, than leave the room to those who think the web is [...] [...] if the NUJ is sounding protectionist or Luddite, then I’d rather engage with it - as Neil McIntosh has done with his five things the NUJ could do to get more clued-up - and join the conversation, than leave the room to those who think the web is [...]

]]> By: MacDara http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1757 MacDara Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:24:57 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1757 I might add an addendum to the second point: Use e-mail to notify members of upcoming meetings! I haven't been in the union for long (almost 6 months now, though I had a spell as a student member a couple of years ago). I've been to precisely one meeting in that time, and that was only to get formally invited to join. At that same meeting -- which was sparsely attended, I should add -- the point was raised that attendance was so low precisely because members simply aren't notified of when such meetings are taking place. Why couldn't the union send out a blanket e-mail a week beforehand to give its members a chance to participate?, it was asked. We were assured that it would be looked into -- but nothing. I know the branch has my e-mail address, but I'm pretty sure it's not being used to communicate any pertinent information (re: meetings or anything else) to me. Have their been any meetings since the one I attended in May? I'd have to assume so, but I don't know when they were, and I have no way of finding out (the online section for the NUJ in Ireland is like a child's abandoned homepage) save for pestering the branch office on a weekly basis by phone. I find that ridiculous, to say the least. I might add an addendum to the second point: Use e-mail to notify members of upcoming meetings!

I haven’t been in the union for long (almost 6 months now, though I had a spell as a student member a couple of years ago). I’ve been to precisely one meeting in that time, and that was only to get formally invited to join.

At that same meeting — which was sparsely attended, I should add — the point was raised that attendance was so low precisely because members simply aren’t notified of when such meetings are taking place. Why couldn’t the union send out a blanket e-mail a week beforehand to give its members a chance to participate?, it was asked. We were assured that it would be looked into — but nothing. I know the branch has my e-mail address, but I’m pretty sure it’s not being used to communicate any pertinent information (re: meetings or anything else) to me.

Have their been any meetings since the one I attended in May? I’d have to assume so, but I don’t know when they were, and I have no way of finding out (the online section for the NUJ in Ireland is like a child’s abandoned homepage) save for pestering the branch office on a weekly basis by phone. I find that ridiculous, to say the least.

]]> By: pmclaughlin http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1732 pmclaughlin Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:57:10 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1732 I like these suggestions. I think this is just the kind of conversation we need to be having. My sector is broadcasting but I admire the efforts of Donnacha and others in getting the Union to (start to) address issues around the web. The Union is relaunching its website and hopefully it will be much more the sort of space that you imagine. We need to open up our activities far more and I think many people will be pleasantly surprised if they knew more about what we actually do. The Journalist has independent editorial control and, in my view, does not inform members sufficiently of our successes. In my area we have set up a blog (www.nujbroadcastingblog.blogspot.com) and are looking to invite debate on issues of concern to members. The Union does need to have the option of striking, if necessary, as employers do re-think their actions when faced with the threat of action by members. I like these suggestions. I think this is just the kind of conversation we need to be having. My sector is broadcasting but I admire the efforts of Donnacha and others in getting the Union to (start to) address issues around the web. The Union is relaunching its website and hopefully it will be much more the sort of space that you imagine. We need to open up our activities far more and I think many people will be pleasantly surprised if they knew more about what we actually do. The Journalist has independent editorial control and, in my view, does not inform members sufficiently of our successes. In my area we have set up a blog (www.nujbroadcastingblog.blogspot.com) and are looking to invite debate on issues of concern to members. The Union does need to have the option of striking, if necessary, as employers do re-think their actions when faced with the threat of action by members.

]]> By: Neil Mc http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1723 Neil Mc Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:18:14 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1723 Donnacha - this *is* engagement, like I engaged more than 18 months ago on witness contributors. That you don't see that maybe makes my point for me. Also, I'm not proposing anything radical, just that the union knows its onions before pronouncing. If all you offer us are the supposedly finished results of commissions and deliberations, don't be surprised if I - and plenty others - go nuts when so much of it's bobbins. As for joining Facebook groups and the rest... I know it's all there, but I'm not sure of the difference it can make when I know even those who *do* engage, to a decent degree and even in the union's structures, are left hugely frustrated by the muscular attitude taken by some activists. But coffee - we can agree on that. Of course. Donnacha - this *is* engagement, like I engaged more than 18 months ago on witness contributors. That you don’t see that maybe makes my point for me. Also, I’m not proposing anything radical, just that the union knows its onions before pronouncing. If all you offer us are the supposedly finished results of commissions and deliberations, don’t be surprised if I - and plenty others - go nuts when so much of it’s bobbins. As for joining Facebook groups and the rest… I know it’s all there, but I’m not sure of the difference it can make when I know even those who *do* engage, to a decent degree and even in the union’s structures, are left hugely frustrated by the muscular attitude taken by some activists.
But coffee - we can agree on that. Of course.

]]> By: Donnacha DeLong http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1719 Donnacha DeLong Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:24:38 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1719 Neil, you're a member - why have I never seen you at a meeting? Or why haven't you joined the NUJ New Media mailing list linked from the side of our blog (it's open to everyone, not just union members)? Or why haven't you contacted me to talk about anything, ever? You're not even a member of the NUJ group on Facebook, how difficult would that be? Christ, you could just talk to Len or Jemima if you wanted to say something to the union. This is grandstanding and not particularly constructive. Have you looked at the NUJ training website to see what we do offer? I'm not denying at all that things need to change, I've been at the forefront of changes in the union for the past few years. Without the efforts of people like myself, there wouldn't be a New Media sector - but I note that you're not even in that sector, so how would you know anything about it? You're a member of a democratic movement, so engage - demand change in a democratic way. At least think about taking up my offer of coffee, I would actually like to talk to you face to face, posting on blogs is always a frustrating means of communication (at least on Usenet you can quote more effectively!) Neil, you’re a member - why have I never seen you at a meeting? Or why haven’t you joined the NUJ New Media mailing list linked from the side of our blog (it’s open to everyone, not just union members)? Or why haven’t you contacted me to talk about anything, ever? You’re not even a member of the NUJ group on Facebook, how difficult would that be? Christ, you could just talk to Len or Jemima if you wanted to say something to the union. This is grandstanding and not particularly constructive. Have you looked at the NUJ training website to see what we do offer?

I’m not denying at all that things need to change, I’ve been at the forefront of changes in the union for the past few years. Without the efforts of people like myself, there wouldn’t be a New Media sector - but I note that you’re not even in that sector, so how would you know anything about it?

You’re a member of a democratic movement, so engage - demand change in a democratic way. At least think about taking up my offer of coffee, I would actually like to talk to you face to face, posting on blogs is always a frustrating means of communication (at least on Usenet you can quote more effectively!)

]]> By: johninnit http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1708 johninnit Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:47:26 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1708 Oh, and one other point sorry - The union needs BOTH muscle and knowledge. Strikes (and threatened strikes) over the last couple of years have helped a lot in terms of getting better deals for staff (ie redundancy payments and retraining during large layoffs, as well as "no compulsory redundancy" deals), but this is rightly the union's last resort in a crisis. It won't be needed in the majority of cases, but it's still a crucial weapon the union shouldn't give up. Oh, and one other point sorry - The union needs BOTH muscle and knowledge. Strikes (and threatened strikes) over the last couple of years have helped a lot in terms of getting better deals for staff (ie redundancy payments and retraining during large layoffs, as well as “no compulsory redundancy” deals), but this is rightly the union’s last resort in a crisis. It won’t be needed in the majority of cases, but it’s still a crucial weapon the union shouldn’t give up.

]]> By: johninnit http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1707 johninnit Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:42:11 +0000 http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/10/31/five-things-the-nuj-could-do-to-engage-with-the-web/#comment-1707 Excellent suggestions Neil, and I hope the union does take more (all) of them up (I know they are already on the case with their very long-in-the-tooth site). I'd take issue with the last line though. The union is trying to take the lead with this Commission, but I admit may be doing it through less than optimal means, as you allude to in your other suggestions. And I quite like "the Journalist" - surely it can't be just me? Excellent suggestions Neil, and I hope the union does take more (all) of them up (I know they are already on the case with their very long-in-the-tooth site).
I’d take issue with the last line though. The union is trying to take the lead with this Commission, but I admit may be doing it through less than optimal means, as you allude to in your other suggestions.
And I quite like “the Journalist” - surely it can’t be just me?

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