Comments on: The business we’re in http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/ by Neil McIntosh Wed, 04 May 2011 13:45:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Craig McGill http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-955 Craig McGill Tue, 22 May 2007 11:15:12 +0000 http://69.89.31.92/~complew7/?p=474#comment-955 EasyPaper/Metro - I seem to recall an email from someone in the late 90s pointing out the difficulties of a free newspaper in Scotland :-) But yeah, news can change as can the bundle. It's just a very tricky formula to tweak and still keep everyone/actually grow. Charles, as for the torrent idea, I'm not 100 per cent convinced that it would be that tricky. You make the torrent passworded (again it can be passed around but no system is fullproof) and host the torrent for x amount of days. Current CD/DVD giveaways do nothing for paper loyalty either as most giveaways are nicked off the paper without it actually being bought anyway. Copyright might not be that big a hurdle but what would be a concern (and I failed to post this yesterday) is that if you did a giveaway like this and the people didn't know about torrents then they sure would afterwards. And then go grab everything... EasyPaper/Metro – I seem to recall an email from someone in the late 90s pointing out the difficulties of a free newspaper in Scotland :-)

But yeah, news can change as can the bundle. It’s just a very tricky formula to tweak and still keep everyone/actually grow.

Charles, as for the torrent idea, I’m not 100 per cent convinced that it would be that tricky. You make the torrent passworded (again it can be passed around but no system is fullproof) and host the torrent for x amount of days.

Current CD/DVD giveaways do nothing for paper loyalty either as most giveaways are nicked off the paper without it actually being bought anyway.

Copyright might not be that big a hurdle but what would be a concern (and I failed to post this yesterday) is that if you did a giveaway like this and the people didn’t know about torrents then they sure would afterwards. And then go grab everything…

]]> By: An Honest Man http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-954 An Honest Man Mon, 21 May 2007 21:31:51 +0000 http://69.89.31.92/~complew7/?p=474#comment-954 And I was always told the overriding purpose of any organisation was to make a profit! And I was always told the overriding purpose of any organisation was to make a profit!

]]> By: Charles http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-953 Charles Mon, 21 May 2007 17:00:56 +0000 http://69.89.31.92/~complew7/?p=474#comment-953 The torrent answer is pretty easy - because it wouldn't create any loyalty to the paper (how do you keep the torrent link secret from readers of other papers/sites) and would also depend on lots of people wanting it (so the torrent gets a good swarm), whereas readers might not feel like setting up their computer on a Saturday morning when they'd rather sit at the breakfast table. And that's before you consider the copyright issues. Which would be considerable. The torrent answer is pretty easy – because it wouldn’t create any loyalty to the paper (how do you keep the torrent link secret from readers of other papers/sites) and would also depend on lots of people wanting it (so the torrent gets a good swarm), whereas readers might not feel like setting up their computer on a Saturday morning when they’d rather sit at the breakfast table.

And that’s before you consider the copyright issues. Which would be considerable.

]]> By: Neil McIntosh http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-952 Neil McIntosh Mon, 21 May 2007 14:01:33 +0000 http://69.89.31.92/~complew7/?p=474#comment-952 Adrian/Craig - think the key here is not necessarily the value of certain bundles... Craig, think you're absolutely right to say that the natural unit of news isn't - always - just a story; there's still value in collections of news curated and presented in a particular way. But the bundle doesn't have to be made in the same way for ever. Isn't the easyPaper called Metro? ;) Adrian/Craig – think the key here is not necessarily the value of certain bundles… Craig, think you’re absolutely right to say that the natural unit of news isn’t – always – just a story; there’s still value in collections of news curated and presented in a particular way.

But the bundle doesn’t have to be made in the same way for ever. Isn’t the easyPaper called Metro? ;)

]]> By: Craig McGill http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-951 Craig McGill Mon, 21 May 2007 13:56:38 +0000 http://69.89.31.92/~complew7/?p=474#comment-951 As you say the challenge here is getting it right, but to an extent I think the wee firm still has a chance because at a smaller firm just setting up the tech and the product (in this case news) should have a tighter integration. I have problems with the EasyJet comparison though. On one hand, newspapers can't pare back to one essential core product because they need the mass market appeal to justify the mass market ad rates. Let's consider a paper call EasyPress. Ultimately it can't pare back like an airline can - though feel free to skip the free DVDs and so on (and on that note, why doesn't a paper just start a torrent for a DVD instead and save on a lot of costs? Advertise the torrent instead of the physical product) If EasyPress did pare back it runs the risk of losing you or me as a reader because what I want in a paper may be the opposite from you. (to be fair, most of the people who read this blog aren't typical audience - heck I still pick up every paper I can when abroad in any language so I can see what stylistic, typographical, pic differences there are. Most of the people on this site are interested in news in general and specific. Yer average reader isn't) This problem equally applies to websites in the RSS age. Most people I know look at me as a dinosaur for prefering not to RSS. I like to go and browse about and see things outwith my normal interests. Hell, how else will I learn new things or see things outwith my normal realm of study? This brings you back to the problem that on one hand you have a very exclusively tailored market for ad placing (and therefore revenue generating) but at the same time it may not have the large appeal of the massmarket, which is in part what advertisers are paying for. (have to dash into a meeting. I'll edit this into more sense later) As you say the challenge here is getting it right, but to an extent I think the wee firm still has a chance because at a smaller firm just setting up the tech and the product (in this case news) should have a tighter integration.

I have problems with the EasyJet comparison though.

On one hand, newspapers can’t pare back to one essential core product because they need the mass market appeal to justify the mass market ad rates.

Let’s consider a paper call EasyPress. Ultimately it can’t pare back like an airline can – though feel free to skip the free DVDs and so on (and on that note, why doesn’t a paper just start a torrent for a DVD instead and save on a lot of costs? Advertise the torrent instead of the physical product)

If EasyPress did pare back it runs the risk of losing you or me as a reader because what I want in a paper may be the opposite from you.

(to be fair, most of the people who read this blog aren’t typical audience – heck I still pick up every paper I can when abroad in any language so I can see what stylistic, typographical, pic differences there are. Most of the people on this site are interested in news in general and specific. Yer average reader isn’t)

This problem equally applies to websites in the RSS age. Most people I know look at me as a dinosaur for prefering not to RSS. I like to go and browse about and see things outwith my normal interests. Hell, how else will I learn new things or see things outwith my normal realm of study?

This brings you back to the problem that on one hand you have a very exclusively tailored market for ad placing (and therefore revenue generating) but at the same time it may not have the large appeal of the massmarket, which is in part what advertisers are paying for.

(have to dash into a meeting. I’ll edit this into more sense later)

]]> By: Adrian Monck http://www.completetosh.com/weblog/2007/05/20/the-business-were-in/comment-page-1/#comment-950 Adrian Monck Sun, 20 May 2007 20:25:33 +0000 http://69.89.31.92/~complew7/?p=474#comment-950 I didn't mean to sound so gloomy. I was really thinking about journalism jobs. I think the old revenues won't support the same job structure. Governments will only ever be marginal players, but look at Bloomberg with 2,300 journalists - journalism's not a core part of Bloomberg's business but it's a bloody impressive sideline! I didn’t mean to sound so gloomy. I was really thinking about journalism jobs. I think the old revenues won’t support the same job structure. Governments will only ever be marginal players, but look at Bloomberg with 2,300 journalists – journalism’s not a core part of Bloomberg’s business but it’s a bloody impressive sideline!

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